[Civil Disobedience] Like my co-worker, Ted McDonough, I got well-mashed between throngs of Proposition 8 protesters who demonstrated in front of the LDS Church headquarters at 50 North Temple in downtown Salt Lake City last night.Organizers of the rally put the number of protesters at more than 3,000. Around 7:15 p.m., a police officer I talked to estimated crowd size at 2,000. Conventional wisdom among reporters who cover such things is you land somewhere in the middle of those two sources. So I'll go with 2,500.
No matter. It was a mess 'o humanity.
The official church statement in reaction to the event showed the sect's typical shock and dismay that people might actually take to the streets to fight the church's deep involvement with political issues like this one . Church spokesman Scott Trotter, in the statement, said in part:
...it is wrong to target the church and its sacred places of worship for being part of the democratic process.
Since I was there for the entire evening, I can tell you with certainty that the church's main symbol of sacredness and worship-- the temple--was not targeted in any way. I walked the parameter outside Temple Square twice while interviewing people. The temple was not targeted. At all. The event was peaceful. Many of the marchers I stood around took great pains NOT to trample the church property gardens, for instance. The area surrounding Temple Square is open to the public and maintained through tax dollars. Everyone had a right to be there. And there were 50 or so counter-protesters, as well.
Anti-8 protesters did, in fact, stop outside the Church Office Building for several minutes each time they circled the area. They chanted, shouted and waved signs outside the building--which is where the church officials do their work, including crafting strategies to advance an anti-gay agenda--and the HQ building is a legitimate symbol of protest. The marchers I witnessed and the dozens I spoke with had no intention of singling out the temple, and for the church p.r. staff to paint the protest that way is simply a lie. (Holly Mullen)
Holly,
ReplyDeleteDo you read your own website? To assert the the Temple wasn't a target of the march seems beyond ludicrous.
"FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2008
Peaceful Prop 8 Protest Tonight
The city approved a peaceful protest to take place tonight at TEMPLE SQUARE, .... Attendees will then march around the TEMPLE and the Church Office Building."
Why not buy the LDS temple?
ReplyDeleteThis is amazing the LDS/Mormon church forgot to re-new the registration for their popular Salt Lake City Temple and now the domain is being sold to the highest bidder.
Go to http://www.SaltLakeCityTemple.com
For years and years people of all faiths (especially LDS) will type in the domain and you can decide what they will see.
So did the walls come tumblin' down?
ReplyDeleteDidn't think so.
Nor will they.
poor losers.
but losers, none the less
Black Churches spearheaded support for Prop 8 and 70+% of AfricanAmericans voted YES. Will Salt Lake's Black Churches be targets of marches? Will Baptists and Catholics?
ReplyDeleteProp 8 is just an excuse for Salt Lakes haters to vent on their favorite target.
This whole thing has become one huge joke. I'm glad I'm not going where those freaky LDS folks are going. I'd rather be in hell.
ReplyDeleteLive you own life and but the hell out of everyone elses. Are we voting on your marriage? Maybe we should.
The difference is we don't care what you think of our marriage, we are comfortable with our beliefs and don't run around trying to force others to validate our choices.
ReplyDeleteVote away.
Don't waste your breath, however, telling us the results.
Don't really care.
The LDS have crossed over the line on this one :
ReplyDeleteWalsh: LDS stand on Prop. 8 oozes irony
By Rebecca Walsh
Tribune Columnist
Article Launched: 11/02/2008 01:19:27 AM MST
"In a four-month offensive, the LDS Church has deployed its faithful as partisans for California's Proposition 8, a ballot initiative that would ban gay marriage - the largest mobilization since the faith fought the Equal Rights Amendment three decades ago. In June, members were asked to "do all you can." And they have.
As a result, the Salt Lake City-based church gets the credit and the blame for leading the cause. According to Californians Against Hate, Mormons have donated more than $19 million to the cause - nearly four out of five dollars raised."
A boycott of Utah and ALL LDS owned businesses is already underway. I'm also joining those who are moving for the removal of tax exempt status for this crossing over the line of church ( Temple) and State.
The State Constitutions of this country are changing to directly Exclude the rights of a minority group. Those sacred documents should never exclude rights at the risk of government being allowed to further exclude minority rights.
ReplyDeleteThe Mormon church is a minority religion in the US.
My issue with the Mormon Church is that they have lied and lied and lied over and over and over... from Hawaii, to Alaska, to Nevada, to Utah... nearly 30 states.
ReplyDeleteThey've organized well and I'll give them kudos on that.
However, they are 0.02% of the world's population and they think God only talks to THEM thru the one and only true prophet Monson (not Muhammed).
I can hear it now in sacrament meetings, "There is but God and Monson is his prophet".
I'm sick of them forcing their will on me. Forcing everyone to do right, by the tennets and doctrine of Mormonism, is Satan's plan.
Whom really do you worship, Mormons?
If you're tired of the church like my family is, www.resignforequality.com
don't fight hate with hate
ReplyDeletehttp://no-on-proposition-8.blogspot.com/
Good blog Holly. The way the church made it sound, they were trampling the flowers next to the temple.
ReplyDeleteSay no to bullys and abuse. My fav site: www.kickbully.com
ReplyDeletemarriage: one man, 26 wives......
ReplyDeleteHey, this is just a different version of the Moutain Meadow Massacre, mormons getting worked up to smack somebody, and feeling all along they are right. Its gotta stop. In Idaho they were banned, in history, for 5 years from holding any public office when they tried to take over all public offices and control the entire state. Altruists, I think not. Nazis, I think so. look at: http://www.mormonsstoleourrights.com/
ReplyDeleteboo hoo
ReplyDeleteDon't blame the Mormons; as you say they are a tiny minority.
The AfricanAmericans who turned out for Barak put Prop 8 over the top.
Is the big Democratic tent not big enough for Homosexuals anymore?
When Romney lost Mormon haters were fond to say that the Republican Party had no place for Mormons but it looks like in fact it is the new Obama Democratic Party that is giving Homosexuals the boot. Don't let the door hit your fanny on the way out.
don't blame the mormons? here's a piece on the mt. meadow massacre
ReplyDeleteProfessor Gene Sessions, a Mormon, historian and authority on the massacre has concluded:
"... some 50 Mormons taking orders from local ecclesiastical leaders actually went out and tricked these 120 people out of their encampment with a white flag and then proceeded to murder them in cold blood with the exception of 17 small children. ...
"It's an awful story, you can't put a smilie face on it. This was cold-blooded murder of innocent people. Occasionally someone will come up to me and say, 'Well don't you think they deserved it?' And, no I don't think they deserved it. I don't care how many of the stories you believe about whatever the immigrants did to get killed, nothing they did came anywhere close to justifying the murder of little children and the oldest child saved was six-years and 11 months old. Everyone older than that was murdered. In fact most of the murdered people were women and children. So there's no justification. Even if you wanted to make some justification for killing the men, it breaks down pretty fast. It's just- there's no justification for the murder of these people. ..."
Don't blame the Mormons, for Prop 8, moron.
ReplyDeletetry to keep up.
it's 2008.
In 1992 Homosexuals chanted:
ReplyDelete"we're here
we're queer
we're going to the White House!" the night Clinton was elected.
Clinton tried to change "don't ask-don't tell" and got smacked.
There was no gloating by Homosexuals this election night.
Obama isn't Clinton, he won't even pretend to support homosexual marriage.
What do you think Rev Wright taught Obama about homosexuality for 20 years?
Have you ever listened to the Black Churches take on homosexuality?
It pleases you to distort the LDS position and hate Mormons but you're in for some eye-opening over the next few months about attitudes of the new administration toward homosexuality. (I'm not talking about what Obama says for public consumption, even then he wouldn't support Homosexual marriage, I'm talking about the core attitudes and beliefs wired in the DNA of those who will be in power.)
(I speak as a life long Atlanta resident)
98% of Blacks voted for Obama and 70% voted for Prop 8.
Salt Lake Homosexuals may delude themselves and take it out on Mormons but they are missing the big picture.
The times- they are 'a changing.
Quotation:
ReplyDelete"If any miserable scoundrels come here, cut their throats." Brigham Young 1
"The Mountain Meadows Massacre stands without a parallel amongst the crimes that stain the pages of American history. It was a crime committed without cause or justification of any kind to relieve it of its fearful character... When nearly exhausted from fatigue and thirst, [the men of the caravan] were approached by white men, with a flag of truce, and induced to surrender their arms, under the most solemn promises of protection. They were then murdered in cold blood." William Bishop, Attorney to John D. Lee.
www.kickbully.com
ReplyDeleteThe mormons, the won the battle but not the war....they've woken up the sleeping giant. Every wall is a door........We're going to work until California has marriage, and every 50 states. If it takes a sign on every household in American that says Mormons stay out, so be it.
ReplyDeleteLeave the Mormons alone. They were just exercising their rights in the democratic process. If 8 had failed, you wouldn't see the other side in the streets causing havoc.
ReplyDeleteInteresting.
ReplyDeleteHomosexuals tout same-sex marriage as a civil rights issue.
But the community that has the most firsthand knowledge of civil rights rejected that notion by almost three to one.
Blacks aren't buying equating their struggle for equality with the right for rich self-centered spoiled yuppie white homosexuals to blow $50K on a "wedding".
Go figure.
Did anybody notice--Holly called what she and Ted (and the rest of them) do "work." "Work." Now that's some funny shit.
ReplyDeleteShe wouldn't know real work if it bit her in the ass, just like almost every other "journalist" pie-in-the-skier...
I'm in the process of officially requesting that "The Church" negate my membership. I know of many more that are doing or have done the same and encourage any non-practicing Mormon's to follow up. This is a great way to communicate your disgust with this hateful religion.
ReplyDeleteThe Churches membership numbers are skewed in that, even as I request to not be counted among them, they'll retain my name on file. It is further skewed by the fact that they baptize children who, after realizing what a stupid crock this man-made religious corporation is, never step foot in a Mormon church again. They count these people as members, too.
But the harder you push against the Mormon's the more they'll love you for it. Mormon's thrive on persecution. Without persecution of Mormons in their early years, this "religion" would not exist today. This movement against them will allow the "faithful" to coalesce once more and will serve to strengthen their fanatical core her in Zion.
It's no wonder to me that Mormon's have suffered persecution throughout their sordid history. They've likely always behaved toward "outsiders" and neighbors as they do now. They are arrogant, meddling and forceful. They have no business acting as a political force to remove social liberties from other human beings but they do.
Mormons have always earned their tar and feathers and they wear them well.
The gay community can leave Utah and make life easier on everyone. Please, go to California, make Gay Marriage legal and stop whining...
ReplyDeleteUtah is the worst place for you to be, leave, get the hell out, be gone.
Stop your crying...God's eternal laws don't change because you get a hard on for another guys stanky pooper...
"Stop your crying...God's eternal laws don't change because you get a hard on for another guys stanky pooper..."
ReplyDeleteSpoken like a true Mormon.
The gay community is going nowhere. If anything, your hate movement will prompt the gay community to flaunt their lifestyle in your face as you have flaunted yours in theirs for so long.
This was really, really stupid of the Mormons to do. You'll find out.
Oooh!
ReplyDeleteThe gay boys are angry now!
We're really scared.
Flaunt away.
That is why we are well on the way to every state amending their Constitutions to ban same sex marriage. Even California.
Hate and blame Mormons if it makes you feel better.
You're missing the big picture, however.
Homosexual behavior is it's own punishment.
If there were no Mormons in the universe you would still be miserable discontented wretches.
sorry.
"If there were no Mormons in the universe you would still be miserable discontented wretches."
ReplyDeleteAnother peek into the true Mormon's soul. As evidenced by these words and those of so many of the LDS flock, this is not a religion of kindness, understanding and love, but one of intolerance and hatred.
Jesus must be very proud of you.
"The gay boys are angry now!"
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify things for your simple mind, I'd like you to understand that posts Nov 10th, 10:21, 10:40 and 11:57 were written by a straight boy, happily married for 15 years.
Keep it coming. As a representative of your church, your hatred is expected and useful in these times.
"Strait" boy; please further clarify-
ReplyDeletehow is it intolerant or hateful to observe that someone's behavior leaves them miserable and discontented? Just because the truth cuts and it hurts your feelings? The only thing you're peeking into is your own hatred and bigotry.
And as a representative of what church? You assume too much.
Are you suggesting the gay boys are not angry? Has your straitness and happy marriage healed their bitterness and disappointment? If so my hat is off to you but I don't think they got that memo.
So, you're going to write religious statements like "God's eternal laws don't change" and expect people to not assume that you are Mormon? You are. And if you're not, you've aligned yourself with them. Either way, you represent them here with your hateful words.
ReplyDeleteIf you're claiming that being gay makes an individual miserable or discontented, you either know no gay people or have only met those that your religion has made to feel that way.
You speak no truth. You speak hatred. And while your words do cut and hurt, it is not me that they affect. They affect you. If you were a decent Christian with any sense of Christian values, you would know that.
I am not suggesting that the "gay boys" are not angry. They are and have a right to be. But you wrongly assumed that my words were coming from a gay perspective, which is why I corrected you.
I am not peeking into anything. I don't have to. You and your ilk have brought your close-minded hatred into the open for all to see and you're now dealing with the beginning of a massive backlash. Believe it or not, by doing this your church has assisted the equality movement more than your mean little mind will ever understand.
I find it hypocritical that the LDS church is bearing the full retaliation, when several churches, including my church, were part of a coalition. There were far more non-Mormons that voted for Proposition 8 than there were Mormons. Yet, once again, the easy target gets protested for expressing the values of that joint coalition.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I feel empathy for people I work with that have been in long term relationships and feel pain from this majority decision by California residents.
Robert: The Mormon Church visibly organized and rallied for Prop 8. Their religious leaders asked their religious congregation to donate to the cause and raised nearly $20 million tax free dollars to fight against the civil rights of other human beings. They were the driving force behind Prop 8. They own it. It really is simple.
ReplyDeleteStrait Boy-
ReplyDeleteyou are erroneously assuming different posts are from one person.
You may be prompted by your prejudice, bigotry and hatred of Mormons to give the Church too much credit, similar to the way Hitler blamed the Jews for all social ills.
ReplyDeleteFortunately support for Prop 8 came from a wide spectrum of moral forces; Catholics, Evangelicals, and especially Black congregations included.
"Strait Boy-
ReplyDeleteyou are erroneously assuming different posts are from one person."
I realized that after the fact and thought that I did quite well in unknowingly debating two persons in one go. Your writing styles are very different and I should have picked up on that. None the less, my words stand and are for you both.
Anon @ 4:23 - Using Hitler as an example to prove your point is beyond ridiculous, illustrating that you aren't worth my thoughts or time.
WE"RE NOT WORTHY !!!!!
ReplyDeleteSorry but the shades of differences in the hatred of religious minorities are a little difficult to discern from this vantage point.
The tone of the posts this week suggest that if the angry disappointed homosexuals have there way Mormons in 2008 America will find their situation similar to that of Jews in 1930s Germany.
(have you ever read 'The Protocols of the Elders of Zion'? It may give you fresh material-)
"The LDS have crossed over the line on this one"
"...you're now dealing with the beginning of a MASSIVE backlash."
"This was really, really stupid of the Mormons to do. YOU'LL FIND OUT."
"Mormons have always earned their tar and feathers and they wear them well."
"It's no wonder to me that Mormon's have suffered persecution throughout their sordid history."
"....communicate your disgust with this hateful religion."
"They have no business acting as a political force..."
Strait boy;
ReplyDeleteyou focus on your dislike of Mormons and blame your defeat in Prop 8 on them but you overlook the fact that there are compelling social policy reasons not to corrupt the institution of marriage.
Opponents of homosexual marriage come from a wide spectrum of (conflicting) religious views, the vote was not about religion but about prudent and responsible social policy.
If you can get past your religious bigotry you will be better able to see and debate the issue on it's true merits.
BOYCOTT the following for donating funds in favor of Prop 8.
ReplyDeleteSubway - Located at 221 South 1300 East, SLC, UT (Bryan Piteck Owner/Operator of local subway)
Synergy Entrepreneurs LLC
Osmonds
JJ Cole Collections
Zion Foundation
Curtis B Hoffman, Attorney
Armstrong Conculting - Saratoga Springs, UT
Sorenson Communications - Diana Lewis - Vice President, Holladay, UT
KRUSE, LANDA MAYCOCK & RICKS
PARR, WADDOUPS BROWN GEE - Kaysville
The Layton Company - Executive VP
Mac Management, INC - CEO
Ripley Architects - SLC
ProSteel Security products - President - Alpine
Western Botanicals, INC - Spanish Fork - Owner
First Global Marketing LLC - Provo
Fugel Farms - Provo - Owner
Utah Process INC - Provo
Coral Construction, Inc - Provo
Coral Desert Rehabilitation - St George
Sandefur Schmidt, Writer, Provo
EAGLE GATE COLLEGE GROUP, CEO, SLC
Fundet Foundation, Draper
Intense International, Provo
JJ COLE COLLECTIONS, Hyde Park - Vice President
Lakeside Storage, LLC - Provo
PFizer - Sales Manager - Steven Gottfredson - SLC, UT
BYU, Provo
Kathryn Knight, Lawyer, SLC
Nextpage, Alpine
ES-O-EN Corporation, Draper
Qualtrics, Orem
Rachel Thurston Photography, Sandy
Mediconnect Global
HRCP, Provo
Franklin Covey, Sandy
Western States Mechanical, Springville
GILLESPIE LAW OFFICE, Roosevelt
Peoples Utah Bancorp, Highland, UT - CFO
Wolfgang Muelleck
JONATHAN MYERS, Real Estate Agent, Highland
Extra Space Inc, SLC - CEO - Kenneth Wooley
Freedom Oil & Gas, Alpine - President- J Gowdy
Dr Alan Colledge - Central Utah Clinic, Lindon
BioLynk, Mapleton, UT - Vice President - Wendy Hendry
Dr Wayne Larsen, Centerville
DO Terra International - Pleasant Grove - Gregory Cook - Owner
More Good Foundation, Provo, UT - Executive Vice President - Richard Miller
Sports Tech, Alpine, UT - David Wunderli - Owner
(All info above was taken directly from the Proposition 8 Contribution list - http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/)
Feel free to copy and paste this list and pass it on. A similar list is being created for each state
SUPPORT THR PRECEDING BUSINESSES !!!
ReplyDeleteThe LDS church has just as much of a right to protest Gay Marriage as you have the right to protest the LDS church.
ReplyDeleteAlso the church has been threw much darker times than a couple of winey brats outside telling them that they want to do anything they want.
Thirdly Marriage has always been considered a holy ordinance. From the jews to the catholics and the LDS church. Just because as a church it is not wavering in it's views people are crying foul. Marriage is a holy ordinance and although current thinking has tried to change it. It does not change the fact of why there is marriage and where it came from. Same sex Marriages were never suppose to be part of it. No matter how much you hiss and moan and cry about it.
Lastly the LDS church might have organized against gay marriage. but how is that any diffrent from the people supporting it. should we go protest about your protest? Maybe we can gather everyone in California and other states that voted with us and remind you of our same right to live our lives and have our civil rights. Those you would have taken away so that you can have marriage. What is after that? You will never be happy. You will always find another fight. If its not marriage it will be that more gays should have more of a role in religion. Or why is a gay man not the head of the LDS, Jewish, Catholic, ect... churches.
This topic is wrong. the supporters of gay marriage are wrong. You do not understand marriage. You do not understand the meaning, you only know the name.
Don't forget Brigham Young's famous words, If any scoundrels come around here, slit their throats.
ReplyDelete(oh, yes, mormons are so innocent)
Prop 22
ReplyDeleteBan MORMONS
"Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 3, p. 266). Also, "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269).
ReplyDelete- Brigham Young
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)
ReplyDelete- Brigham Young
"You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, uncomely, disagreeable and low in their habits, wild, and seemingly deprived of nearly all the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind....Cain slew his brother. Can might have been killed, and that would have put a termination to that line of human beings. This was not to be, and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, page 290).
ReplyDelete- Brigham Young
"I am here to answer. I shall be on hand to answer when I am called upon, for all the counsel and for all the instruction that I have given to this people. If there is an Elder here, or any member of this Church, called the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 16, page 161.)
ReplyDelete- Brigham Young
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
ReplyDeleteThe problem isn’t that the Mormon Church is anti-gay, the problem is the Mormon Church perpetuates the bigoted view of their current “leader”. If the current leader told every one it’s godly and good to hate Latinos or Asians the members probably would.
ReplyDeleteThe Mormon Church was pro polygamy until the government told them it was illegal. And now they veer as far away from polygamy as possible excommunicating those who practice.
The Mormons were pro segregation and African Americans weren’t allowed in the priesthood, until the government told them it was illegal to segregate. If it wasn’t for the law you wouldn’t have African American Mormons.
And now because it isn’t illegal to discriminate against gays, the Mormon Church can continue to speak out. But once it becomes illegal, the Mormon Church will once again concede, the cult leader will tell everyone to except gays and there will be a gay bishop near you.
And for those who say the Mormon Church isn’t against gays but are protecting the sanctity of marriage and the nuclear family, shouldn’t all those who get a divorce be excommunicated?
Exactly Annie.
ReplyDeleteAnnie! Annie! Are you OK?
ReplyDeletesomebody start cpr
When the Mormon church chose to enter the political sphere, the fact that they are a religious institution became irrelevant. They led non-Mormons in their political campaign, and they exhorted everyone – regardless of their religious affiliation — to vote "yes" on Prop. 8, which affected Mormons and non-Mormons alike. Mormon leaders were acting in their role as citizens in the democratic process.
ReplyDeleteBut as citizens leading a political campaign, they cannot escape public accountability for their public actions. After all that, the leadership of the LDS cannot suddenly change roles, toss up their hands and say, "You can't criticize us! We're a religion!" They forfeited that right when they threw themselves enthusiastically into a non-religious, political campaign.
This is not bigotry or discrimination against a religion. They are politicians now, and they deserve the same scrutiny and criticism due to any other political leader or movement.
If the majority of the people in california voted for prop 8 then the people have spoken so far. Can it change later? Sure thats why this is a democracy. I am sick and appauled by both sides hate for one another. I supported prop 8 and I am a mormon. I also served in Iraq for 2 tours of duty. I had friends die next to me to give everyone the right of freedom of speech. For either side to use violence to force the will on others I will die to make sure that doesn't happen. Voting is a democratic voice of the people. Not violence!!! I am not afraid to say I supported it and I am a mormon but more importantly I am not afraid to die for either side to say they supported it or not. Please by all means tell me how you feel. You can email me at andrewnordgren@yahoo.com I care about the gays and lesbians in my community and I fought for them just the same. In memory of my friends that died please do not support or carry out acts of violence toward any side. Its not worth it. Trust me. Again my email is andrewnordgren@yahoo.com
ReplyDeletethe church should not have crossed the line between church and state. now they are liable for discrimination if any man and women tries to marry and they don't cooperate.
ReplyDeleteI love how Amy Rees Anderson, CEO of Mediconnect Global, DIVORCED with two children by the time she was 24, supported Prop 8. Hypocrite!!!!
ReplyDelete